Home » African Cichlids » Illness & Disease » Swim bladder?
| Swim bladder? [message #8586] |
Mon, 28 January 2008 00:29  |
 Stacy 
Messages: 7
Registered: January 2008 |
Junior Member |
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I've had a 29 gal tank for several years now, and have had two African cichlids for a little over a year (I think one is a Red Zebra, not sure about the other one. Got them from one of the "Assorted African Cichlid" tanks at the pet store). I have a Venustus and a couple of Convicts as well. Last week, one of my Africans started to look like it was struggling to swim horizontally; in fact, by the time I noticed (I spend a bit of time with them every day, so it seemed really out of the blue, actually), it was pretty much "swimming" vertically, with it's head up and tail down. Maybe a day later, my second one (Red Zebra?) started doing it as well. The first one died within 48 hrs., and the second one is still hanging in there, but is still really struggling. S/he is still eating (I feed small-sized pellets) pretty well. The first couple of days, it was as if s/he couldn't move it's tail (same with the first one), as if it was getting stiff, and they would just attempt to swim as hard as possible upwards for food with their side fins. The second is doing better now and is sometimes slightly more horizontal, but even then her tail drags some. She seems to act sickly and hide behind rocks, but when it's feeding time, she recovers well (for the most part), and then will sometimes go right back to vertical (again, head up, tail down). Could this be swim bloat? I've found a couple of things online about it, but otherwise I don't know much. Any help would be appreciated! This is my favorite fish. 
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| Re: Swim bladder? [message #8587] |
Mon, 28 January 2008 08:49  |
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Swim bloat is a disease that some goldfish get not to be confused with the swim bladder. It is an organ that controls the bouyancy of where a fish swims whether it be shallow or deep. It controls the gas or air that is exchanged through out the blood system and released through the gills.
Before a diagnosis is made, there are a few things you need to know, first
did you check your ammonia and nitrates?
Both of these are bi products of waste that can suffocate a fish. If either one of these is high for a period of time, it is most likely going to effect the swim bladder. The proper amount of oxygen is not present and therfor a fish can not produce the right gas exchange to keep it level. Water contains a lot less oxygen then air does and therfor a fish has to work three times harder to get the correct amount of oxygen.
second, did you do a water change?
Do a 50 percent water change if you had not done one already. This will help restore some oxygen back into the water.
And also if there is a parasite or bacterial or viral infection in the tank, it will help reduce the infection. After the water change, you can a bubbler for more O2.
third, did you check your filtration to make sure it's not clogged?
Filtration is everything in a tank. It's the nervous system of the tank and keeps the water rich in oxygen, biosphere, and free from debris that cause high ammonia.
fourth, are there any other signs of illness present on the fish? Raised scales (looking kind of pineconish?) Red swollen gills? Any kind of spots whether they are white or black? A lump behind the anal fin? Anything at all would help.
Are the convicts in the same tank as the Africans? This can cause an extreme amount of stress which can cause illness. These two fish do not belong in the same tank.
So if you have not done a water change, suggest you do it right away. If you don't have a test kit, I suggest you at least get an ammonia and nitrate one. They arent very costly. But until then, the water change will help reduce ammonia and or nitrates. Lets see if you notice a change in the fish after a water change. If not, I recommend a parasite medication. These are harmless to your biosphere and can be used even if a parasite is not present. I can't say the same for antibiotics. So try those two things first and see what happens. Good luck
Please come visit me at www.atozthatsme.com
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| Re: Swim bladder? [message #8589] |
Mon, 28 January 2008 20:26 |
Stacy
Messages: 7
Registered: January 2008 |
Junior Member |
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Thank you very much for your suggestions! I will definitely try a water change first, and see if I notice a change and then go from there.
Also, I read on another site last night that when the hard pellets are used for feeding, constipation can develop (I don't know if this really happens or not...?). The site suggested that this can cause more problems with the swim bladder (again...?), and that they suggest you trade off pellets with some veggies (zucchini, squash, peas, etc.), which I have definitely never done. Are you familiar with this treatment at all? And if so, have you heard of any success with it (or even feeding fish veggies in general)?
Thank you again! I really appreciate your time.
Also, in regard to the Africans and convicts being in the same tank: yes, I've read in many places that they should not share a tank, and I have no doubt that the people who have noted that (yourself included) know MUCH more about all of this than I do! Truth is, I inherited this tank, as well as many of the inhabitants (the Africans came later, but were to replace a couple of Africans that the donor, a good friend, ended up taking back). I had pretty much no knowledge of fish before I got them, and I found out after getting them and doing a little bit of research that she didn't, either, haha. I also have a pretty good-sized Venustus in there (again, an original inhabitant). Surprisingly, though maybe due to being forced, they all get along fairly well. The two convicts (breeding, though they usually eat all of their fry...maybe THIS is due to the stress??) usually stay in their nest, but when they come out, there are no apparent issues with the Venustus or any others. The two Africans have seemingly done very well also, even from the beginning, when they were much younger and smaller than all of the other fish.
OK, sorry for the book (which probably ended up getting off-topic). Once again, your time is appreciated, and thank you for all of your help!
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| Re: Swim bladder? [message #8591] |
Mon, 28 January 2008 20:56 |
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Hi Stacy,
Ok here are the facts, the disease is called "malawi bloat".
The reason it's called Malawi bloat is because the general population of Malawi fish are prone to it. They are big time protein eaters. Too much protein is what causes it but yet they have to have it to become big and strong. There is tons of controversy over this topic so we stick with the facts.
The digestive track of an african cichlid is very long and spiral. The constipation you talk about is not just caused from pellets, also from flake. It's very very important to offer your fish some sort of veggies. You can do algae flake a few times a week, or you can do romaine lettuce 2-3 times a week or mix and match with zucchini several times a week. I personally like romain lettuce. If you rap the base of the romaine lettuce up in a wet paper towel, you will be surprised how long it will last in your fridge. Zucchini doesn't last as long. You buy clips from the pet store that have suction cups on them. clip them to the inside of the tank and add veggie and watch your fish go to town. They turn the romaine lettuce in to lace in a matter of minutes. Being you are going to try it for the first time, it may take your fish a little longer to sniff it out and eat, but once they do, they will always remember it. Two important issues about veggies, Never use regular iceburg lettuce or celery or any red acidy veggies. Most people use the romaine, zucchini, or crushed frozen peas. I personally have not had any luck with the crushed frozen peas. They just sink to the bottom and then mold starts to grow on them. The second thing is to never leave the veggie in the tank over nite. It decays quickly and causes nitrate issues. Just like with humans, it's important for us to get our greens to aid in our digestive track. Same applies for fish. In the wild they would be eating algae off the side of the rocks. I give my fish pellets 2 times a week, flake 3 times a day unless they are babies, and veggies 3-4 times a week. I have a lot of fish in my tank and need to make sure they are getting plenty of veggies. I also give them a snack once a week of plankton. I do not suggest snacks to often as these are usually high in protein and can cause malawi bloat. You should not be afraid of malawi bloat as long as you remember to feed your fish as you would yourself for health issues. We take veggies for lots of reasons. Your fish need them too. I think just about everyone here that is a regular gives their fish veggies, so don't feel that it's far stretched. Truth is, we all learned the same way.
You can also buy veggies from the pet store. They sell sealed sea weed. It's very expensive though, but rich in vitamins.
Also, you do not want to stop giving your fish protein in fear they will get malawi bloat. Keep doing what your doing and just add veggies. They need both.
As far as the convicts go, if you are not having any problems what so ever, like other fish hiding all the time, then by all means, what works for you may not work for someone else as I always say. But if your convicts or your other fish are hiding regularly, then one of the two has to go. It means there is too much stress in the tank. Good luck on that. Okay did I get everything? If not, just respond.
OHHHHHH, don't forget that if you are going to give your fish veggies from the grocer, don't forget to rinse them off as they have pesticides on them.
Good luck Stacy.
Please come visit me at www.atozthatsme.com
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| Re: Swim bladder? [message #8594] |
Mon, 28 January 2008 21:11 |
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Look at this pic of the fish underneith the box, look at its chin so to speak, does it resemble that?
[Updated on: Mon, 28 January 2008 21:11]
Please come visit me at www.atozthatsme.com
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| Re: Swim bladder? [message #8595] |
Mon, 28 January 2008 21:11 |
Stacy
Messages: 7
Registered: January 2008 |
Junior Member |
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Thank you so much for your detailed reply! I just got back from the store with some zucchini and romaine.  Is there a good way to do it if I don't have the hook yet? Maybe just letting it float or something (as long as I make sure I get it out for over-night)?
Haha..pregnant, huh?? I can't really tell about under the mouth...if there is another bump there, it is ever-so-slight. Do the other symptoms I mentioned match up? Or are you thinking he might be pregnant as well as having other issues? My other African died, so I'm thinking there are at least some other issues going on (as he (?) was also doing the "vertical swim" thing).
I will say that Bambi (the living African, named by my 4 year-old, haha) does not seem to be doing the vertical thing nearly as much now, but other than eating, seems to be spending a lot of time under a tile leaned up against the back glass. She is at a bit of a 45 degree angle, but that very well could be because of the tilt of the tile. When she does come out, she seems to be better, but then she goes back. In my head, this doesn't sound good, but maybe it's not too late if I give some veggies (and she has some babies...??). I see you've posted again, so I'll post this and check!
Thanks again,
Stacy
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| Re: Swim bladder? [message #8596] |
Mon, 28 January 2008 21:18 |
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Just put the rooted end of the lettuce under your lid and set the lid down over it. The lettuce will float. Try to put a little pressure on the lid so it sinks into the lettuce a little. As far as pregnant goes, still not sure. You really do have to do the water changes. They are very important atleast every two weeks. We try to do a 50 percent water change bi weekly. I have over 40 fish in my tank though. They produce a lot of waste. Do the water change and see if tomorrow brings better results. If your fish is pregnant, she will not eat. They carry in their mouths as most Malawian cichlids do. If she is carrying, her double chin will get larger as the babies hatch. You will also be able to tell because she will be doing this thing with her mouth that I can't really describe but she is rolling her eggs. Eventually in about a few days, if she is carrying, you will be able to see eyes in her mouth.
It could still very well be an infection. The water change is crucial for this.
[Updated on: Mon, 28 January 2008 21:22]
Please come visit me at www.atozthatsme.com
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| Re: Swim bladder? [message #8598] |
Mon, 28 January 2008 22:07 |
Stacy
Messages: 7
Registered: January 2008 |
Junior Member |
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We'll see how well I do posting this, but here is Bambi, along with Clyde, my Venustus. I wouldn't say that she looks pregnant, more "bloated". Unfortunately, I don't think she's doing well tonight. Hopefully, she'll hang on at least a couple of more days to give me a chance to try to help. Also, I know what you're talking about in regard to the funny egg-shuffling thing...I saw Clyde do it once (she was already named before I saw the eggs, haha). Looked like little pieces of corn. Since there wasn't anyone to fertilize them, they ended up just falling out when she eventually decided to eat. It was really sad, actually.
Thanks again, I'll try more tomorrow.
Attachment: Stacyfish.jpg
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[Updated on: Tue, 29 January 2008 10:37] by Moderator
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| Re: Swim bladder? [message #8633] |
Sun, 03 February 2008 22:55 |
Stacy
Messages: 7
Registered: January 2008 |
Junior Member |
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Hello there! Sorry for the late reply; I was actually going to get back with you and thank you for all of your help a couple of days ago, but now we've been dealing with sick KIDS, so I haven't been able to get on.
Anyway, things seem to be going much better. I did the 50% change you recommended, and while they pretty much refuse (so far) to touch the Romaine, they'll eat some zucchini every now and then. Bambi (the Red Zebra), although s/he still isn't 100%, seems to be on a road to improving. S/he isn't hiding behind the tile nearly as much, and although sometimes there's still a 45 degree angle, I haven't seen the vertical swimming anymore (and the horizontal swimming is becoming much more frequent).
Once again, I can't thank you enough for all of your time and advice. I really appreciate it, and while we did lose one fish, I credit you for saving our other. Thank you so much!!!
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| Re: Swim bladder? [message #8639] |
Tue, 05 February 2008 08:04 |
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You are quite welcomed. I hope everything continues to get better. Please remember because your tank is 29 gal, you will need to do a water change once a week. Anywhere from 1/3 to 1/2 the tank. Half the gravel should be vacuumed once a month. When you do the water changes, take the water from the top of the tank. When you change your filter media, only change one time every 8 weeks but cut a small 4 inch piece from the old filter media and put in with the new media. This little piece is rich in biosphere which is what keeps your water proper for the fish to live in. DO NOT use regular tap water to rinse any filter media out. Instead, take a container like an old jug fill it with the tank water and use it to rinse any filter media out. This can be done everytime you start to notice your filter isnt filtering water as much as it should be. If you throw away the filter media everytime you notice your filter is not pushing out enough water, then you have to start all over with a new biosphere which takes 4-8 weeks to build enough to support your tank. You should also know there is a chemical out there, the only one suggested to put into your tank, it is a chlorine remover. You add it everytime you put new water into the tank from the tap. It takes out the chlorine that the water dept puts in to make your water safe to drink. Unfortuantly, it kills the biosphere in your tank. The chemical also helps with the metals in the water.
The water changes will help your tank from becoming over polluted with ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates which in the end, can and will kill your fish. If you ever decide to upgrade to a larger tank or a canister filter, some of this advise changes.
Good luck Stacy. If you have any further questions, please ask, especially if you want to purchase more fish or equipment. That's what we are here for, to give advise.
[Updated on: Tue, 05 February 2008 08:06]
Please come visit me at www.atozthatsme.com
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